About RevWork and Johnson Controls
Denise Hummel Isaacson:
Greetings, everyone. I’m Denise Hummel Isaacson, and I’m the CEO and founder of RevWork. And as you know, we are a nudged based learning and performance technology. Our founding use case was with inclusion, and we have been lucky enough to have a number of wonderful companies as clients. And JCI is certainly the creme de la creme.
And the people you’re about to see and hear from as I interview them, are two very esteemed colleagues there. We have Karen Clay, who is the head of learning for JCI, and we have Denise Malloy, who leads diversity, equity and inclusion for JCI. We partnered together RevWork and these two wonderful professionals as well as their teams who were very involved in engagement of the technology itself. And we’re here to share just what the experience was like, what they liked about it, the benefits, the challenges, and so on.
So without further ado, I will begin. And ladies, I will maybe sometimes guide you one or the other, but please feel free to just chime in. And especially if one person answers and the other one wants to add a little more information, that’s absolutely fine too.
Diversity and Inclusion in STEM and Technology Fields
Denise Malloy:
We began our DE&I journey at Johnson Controls many years ago. And I stepped into the role about two and a half years ago, and did some work around creating a roadmap, a new mission and vision for our company, and introducing diversity and inclusion across the enterprise in a new and exciting way to have an approach to this work that was very people centric and not office of DE&I centric.
And as a part of our evolution and going forward, we needed a platform through which and by which we could deliver our diversity and inclusion training. And I was introduced to RevWork by a colleague, and it became very apparent very quickly. But this might be a very solid solution to introduce our colleagues, our leaders, our people leaders around the globe to learning in a new way and in a way that could be customizable to their own styles of learning, their own times for preferred learning. And this platform met that need.
Denise Malloy:
So we were evolving, so not as much of a challenge as it was in evolution and needing a tool to take us to that next step. We were looking to do something innovative, we were looking to do something different.
Karen Clay:
And so, Denise, came not only with an idea about building the DEII agenda and helping to bring our employees along on that journey, but she also wanted to do something that was highly impactful and different. And so she came with the idea to really make this program very collaborative, very engaging, and to really focus on helping our employees build that inclusive culture.
Karen Clay:
So we certainly wanted to engage leaders, but we also wanted to engage employees at all levels to gain the skills that they need to help us become the inclusive culture that we strive to be. And so from a learning practitioner standpoint, when we think about any learning intervention, we start with the end in mind, what are the outcomes? What are the behaviors we’re trying to instill? And then the question is, how will we know when we got there? And so starting with the metrics or the measurable outcomes that we’re striving to achieve is really the first part.
Karen Clay:
And many learning programs, whether they’re virtual or live or classroom based, we’re really not as well equipped to get to the metrics as we would like in many programs. And one of the things that truly stood out, Denise, about RevWork was the ability to embed learning in the flow of work and to have employees accessing learning on a regular basis and gaining skill and then practicing that scale by applying it. And so the RevWork solution was really instrumental in helping us achieve our learning objectives, but embed that learning into the day to day and to help employees to apply it with the reminders and the nudges to help apply what we learn in our… So that was really compelling and different.
How RevWork’s Technology Helped Drive Learning Engagement and Adoption at Johnson Controls
Karen Clay:
So the learning in the flow of work, meaning employees frequently accessing the content as opposed to just one time was a key element. And then to make the engagement and the learning sticky, really, the coaching, as far as application of the concepts, was another element that I think helped us achieve very high engagement scores with our learners. And it really came down to you learn something, you decide when you’re going to apply it, and you make a note to yourself, you put it in the calendar, and then the coach from the app reminds you on a frequent basis about what you’re working on to come back to think about how your application went and to continue to engage in the learning journey.
Karen Clay:
And so that coaching element of the RevWork technology was a real differentiator. And many times in learning, when we think about coaching, we think about a person. And a lot of organizations in their learning budgets just can’t afford to have live coaches. So the fact that the coaching was designed using behavioral science is embedded in the app, is easy for the learner to use and is really a huge benefit.
Diversity and Inclusion Powered by a Focus on Behavior Change
Denise Hummel Isaacson:
What is it about the behavior of inclusion that is so hard to create in a sustainable, scalable way? And how did RevWork potentially help with that?
Denise Malloy:
As you think about inclusion, we are all creatures of habit. We do what we do, the way we’ve been doing it, the way we’ve always done it. In fact, much of our behavior is second nature. It’s not even anything that’s a conscious decision to walk into a room and say, hey, how are you guys? And just get right to work, not necessarily observing who’s in the room as you engage in conversation. There’s just a natural free flowing dialogue, and you’re not considering who’s not speaking in the room, you’re just engaging with those that are speaking to you.
Denise Malloy:
And so what we find as the real challenge is this just around the status quo, it’s around just being creatures of habit. And so when you think about getting human beings to make changes, the first thing you have to do is get human beings to a point of acknowledging that this is my behavior, this is how I behave. And then introduce a new model and a new way of approaching the same situation, realizing that there will be a different outcome, and quite frankly, a better outcome, and in this instance, a desired outcome.
Denise Malloy:
And so having a tool that would then permit us to look at behavioral science the way we all approach or the way most humans approach situations in the workplace, we recognize very quickly, oh, maybe my approach is not as inclusive as I thought it was. And because I get to see real life examples in tangible examples of where the behavior is not inclusive, and I get to a very important inflection point where I can decide to do something different or to continue with my behavior. And most people are wanting to continue to grow, they’re wanting to continue to improve. And so being made aware of the need to change or modify behavior is a critical step in actually getting to changed behavior.
Denise Malloy:
Having those real time nudges and those real time promptings to engage in the behavior or try a new tool or a new tactic that was introduced in the apps platform is a real significant way, a real significant boost, if you will, to get people to change behavior. It’s real time, it’s top of mind, I’m going into a meeting, remember in this meeting to ask the employee what they think about this, remember in this meeting, if someone’s not speaking up, ensure that you draw them into the conversation.
Denise Malloy:
So, again, I think those two components are the real two components around human behavior. You think about the habits that we have, you think about just doing what we do, creatures of habit, I think are those two pillars that keep you from achieving the best version of you and the best version of an inclusive workplace that you can achieve.
The Importance of Customizable Learning and Development Technology
Denise Hummel Isaacson:
How important was it the fact that our technology is customizable? And by customizable, what I mean by that is both your branding, so JCI branding as opposed to just RevWork or generic branding. And second of all that actually being able to customize the nudges and the learning assets with JCI messaging and JCI assets, how important was that?
Karen Clay:
Yeah, thanks for the question, Denise. Context is highly important in learning theory. So each employee that comes to access the RevWork tool, it’s important to us to know that they know this is Johnson Controls supported and customized content, because then they know that it’s highly curated for their day to day job experience at work.
Karen Clay:
And so context is very important when you think about learning and making it seem familiar to the employees and the users. And so having not only the JCI brand, but having the ability to customize and add our DE&I strategy content to make it feel really applicable to that employee was a key element of us selecting RevWork as a vendor.
Personalized Inclusive Learning Strategies
Denise Hummel Isaacson:
With regard specifically with inclusion, how important is it for employees to see the JCI brand or messaging or point of view when it comes to having a diverse and inclusive workplace?
Denise Malloy:
Well, it’s critically important, because there are many different views out there in place around inclusion. If you just went in and Googled corporate inclusion, you’d have pages, literally hundreds of pages of material to draw from. So to establish our own baseline around diversity, equity, and inclusion at Johnson Controls, sharing with our employees what we believe, who we are, the direction that we’re taking, was foundational to building something that could be sustained over time.
Denise Malloy:
And as I share, our work is about the employees now doing the work of DE&I and having diversity and equity and inclusion embedded in everything that we do. All of our processes, the way we work, was critically important. So laying that foundation for our Johnson Controls employees was a critical component, I think, in the overarching success of everything that we do and more specifically to the work of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Implementing and Scaling an Enterprise Learning Strategy
Denise Hummel Isaacson:
With regard to implementation and just the general lift associated with implementing a new technology, obviously we want that to be as automated as possible or as small a lift as possible. It is critically important that users have continuous engagement with the RevWork team and really high quality input on everything from engagement to content to whatever it takes for the client, for the customer to be successful. Do you feel that we achieve that?
Karen Clay:
I feel that the level of service that we receive from your team, who is each individual that we met from the tech team to the customer facing support teams, everyone was very knowledgeable, competent, and incredibly supportive of us meeting our objectives with the learning program. So we felt very supported and had a high degree of engagement from your team.
Karen Clay:
The team that worked on the implementation, the loading of the content, found the process to be very simple and straightforward. So the design of the tool, the ability to work with it as an administrator to add content, was very nice compared to other similar applications in our experience. But coupling that with the wonderful support and focus on the partnership that we received from your team, it really made us feel cared for. There were very few hiccups or even challenges in getting from contract sign to launch.
Denise Hummel Isaacson:
Thank you so much. And, Denise, I’ll ask you a slightly different question, if you’re okay with that. We were told by the JCI team that the actual engagement with our technology was among the highest, if not the highest of any technology that they had experienced at JCI. Obviously, it’s only as historic as the team members are, but do you have an opinion as to why engagement was so high with our technology?
Denise Malloy:
Yeah, Denise. So I think having a tool that’s available to you at times when you want to learn, at times that are convenient for you, and to have a tool that permits you to go as deep into a topic as you desire is a real benefit. And we came to see it as a real benefit to our learners and to our leaders. And so one of the biggest questions that I received from my leaders across the enterprise was, can I give more members on my team access to this tool? They wanted to utilize the tool more deeply within their different teams and organizations.
Denise Malloy:
And so when you look at having something that’s customizable to you and to the way you learn and to the times in which learning is most conducive for you, I think causes this app to be a real value add to an organization. So I think that was one of the key benefits was making it about the learner and not necessarily about the organization, not necessarily about the content. But it’s in it for me and what was in it for them was the opportunity to lean in a new way with fresh perspectives, to have the opportunity to journal their real feelings about the tool. Quite frankly, I used the tool myself, I used the journaling tool all the time to really talk about how I felt.
Denise Malloy:
It was safe space, and they knew that it was safe space, and it was a time for them to come face to face with this topic of equity and diversity and inclusion, and to be able to share what I’m thinking, what I’m feeling, and then have tools that can aid and assist in helping me get to higher ground in this space. I think that work and to be able to do that level of self guided, self work in the tool was enormously beneficial and advantageous to us.
Learning Technology That Adapts to Different Learning Styles
Is it important that the RevWork technology is heavily focused on the individual learning style and adapting to the learner rather than vice versa? Or was that not a key feature for you?
Karen Clay:
Yeah. So the way we think about learning styles in our learning team is that we want learning to appeal to as many styles as possible. We believe that while learners have preferences, they do and can learn in multiple ways. And so giving a choice to the learner is always a good rule of thumb that we follow in our L&D team.
Karen Clay:
And so one of the things that did appeal about the RevWork app was exactly that we were able to organize the content that we wanted learners to progress through, but how they got through that, which videos they watched and articles they read was learner directed. And I think that’s really an important principle with adult learners to give them that choice of whether they would prefer to read or prefer to watch a video.
Karen Clay:
And so the content was so rich and engaging on these topics that we felt like learners had great choices. And obviously the adoption rate and the engagement rate of using the RevWork tool was high. And I do believe it’s as a result of having very high quality content in multiple ways to consume and also offering the solution of RevWork on a PC or an app.
Real-Time Learning Content Delivered Through Nudge Messaging
Denise Hummel Isaacson:
Thank you. Thank you so much. Denise, a different question for you, since you were more involved in the actual nudge messages themselves when it relates to inclusion. And obviously, there were some… We pride ourselves in that the app comes with a body of nudge content that you can use or not use, but also add your own. So you can direct your comments to either. But my question is, did you find the nudges practical? So what I mean by that is not theoretical, but practical related to meetings and interviews and the performance process, all the places where the behavior of inclusion can be embedded on a team.
Denise Malloy:
Yeah. So not to defer to an old adage that you get out of something what you put into it, but that’s true here with this tool. So the folks that wanted to go deep, and we had plenty of our colleagues that went deep into the tool, you have a richer experience. And so with the nudges, you could attach your calendar and nudges to your calendar to be more specific to you. And so we have plenty of individuals that did that also.
Denise Malloy:
But one of the key benefits that we found and that I found as a leader, and Karen and I would meet on a monthly basis around the tool and look at all of the metrics and how we were performing with the tool, what we found was that we could send nudges from the enterprise level to our leaders in the field. And we actually created a very healthy competition among our leaders as to who’s using the tool, what’s the utilization rate, needing more leaders to log in for the first time. We probably had three or four different campaigns around sending direct nudges and messaging to our employees to engage more with the tool or engage in a different way with the tool. And we found that to also be enormously helpful.
Denise Malloy:
So the nudges work. Just with getting the tip of the day, I will tell you I cannot. There was so many comments around utilizing the tip of the day and what it meant just to have inclusion and diversity at the forefront of your minds as you started the day and reading those. And then people began to look forward to those.
Denise Malloy:
So all of the different opportunities for nudges were important. And this is the other piece about the tool that I love. It’s so customizable to your organization. How would you like to use the tool in terms of nudging for your people, in addition to how I’m going to use the tool as an individual? So there’s that individual component and the enterprise or organizational component of the nudges that I think works so well together.
Driving Learning Engagement With Employee Recognition Techniques
Denise Hummel Isaacson:
How did you drive that creativity that led to employee recognition that really meant something enough to drive even greater engagement?
Denise Malloy:
Sure. A few times in everybody’s life, you’re going to come up with the dream team. And Karen, myself and Cassie and Julia and Bria, literally we had a dream team, and Jennifer. We had the dream team. And listen, I think it’s a great tool, but I don’t think it’s a tool that you can just give to your employees and walk away. It’s going to be critically important that your executive sponsors remain engaged with the tool and with the team, again, to ensure that you optimize the benefits of the tool. And that’s exactly what we did. Our team was very attentive to the utilization rates, to the first click rates. They were very attentive to the number of hours that were being spent in the tool.
Denise Malloy:
And in those monthly meetings, if we saw a trend that we didn’t like or if we just saw an opportunity and we had a desire to operate at a world class level as opposed to a best in class level, we put processes in place and we put actions in place to drive us to that higher level of engagement. So I wish I could take credit for how we did it, but I can’t. In this instance, it was truly the dream team coming together, bringing our diverse ideas, our diverse thoughts, caring from a learning context. I’m from a DE&I context. And before you know it, we all want the exact same thing. And I’m thinking more from a learner context and Karen’s thinking more from an inclusion context, but that’s how great ideas come to bear and come to life. So it really was a team effort.
Denise Hummel Isaacson:
And I will tell you, it was contagious. So the more enthusiastic and passionate your team was, the more we were and we were almost feeding off of each other, and it was just an incredible experience. So I can understand why you’re proud.
Denise Malloy:
And, Denise, I would add one other element. It’s your program manager. So this must be program managed. And we had an exceptional program manager, very passionate about the work, owned the RevWork relationship, owned all of the processes and metrics and meetings and kickoff sessions and follow ups. And we even had what a steering committee of sorts.
The Importance of Learning Metrics
Denise Hummel Isaacson:
So I’ll wrap up with just two more things. One is just a general question about anything either of you would like to add that I haven’t asked, so that I give you the voice. Anything that just hasn’t come up.
Karen Clay:
Yeah, I have one and I have our metrics in front of me, because I wanted to make sure to highlight, Denise, for you and your clients and your prospects in the future. We set very aggressive metric goals for use of the RevWork tool and engagement. And we strove to get at least 70% of our target population to use the RevWork tool. And we exceeded that goal by having 76% adoption percentage. And that means folks that logged in at least once.
Karen Clay:
But were even prouder of our second key metric, which was a target around weekly engagement. So repeated engagement in the tool to learn the content and engage in the RevWork app. And we had our target set at 50%. And we exceeded that target with a 58% engagement rate over time.
So we’re incredibly proud of those metrics. And that truly proved to us that this was a successful partnership, a successful use of the RevWork tool, because folks not only accessed it, but came back repeatedly to learn. And so we’re very proud of what we’ve accomplished together, Johnson Controls and RevWork, and this engagement was a definite success.
Denise Hummel Isaacson:
Thank you. It seems to be like a self-fulfilling prophecy too, because the engagement across the board with our customers often gets better rather than just dissipating out, and that the percentages that you described are very much in keeping with our other customers and are so much higher than the average enterprise app. So thank you for bringing that up. I should have asked that question. I’m really glad that you gave that answer, even though I didn’t remember to do that.
